Blogger is shocked that women are treated as objects

wait, no. I’m not shocked at all.

If you are naked at all, and a woman, it is only for the purpose of sex and men.

so many commenters on this Even the title of article lets us know that, silly women, don’t you know breasts are for men?

I doubt the women were “shocked” that men wanted watch them. They were making a point. Women cannot safely walk down the streets with the same rights as a man.

on woman say “We should be able to walk down the street and not have this many men taking pictures of us.”

I agree. Commenters of course say, “be realistic.” It is comepletely unrealistic to hope for equality. maybe it is, but I think that is too fatalistic. They are also accused of being “hypocritical biotches” because they are only doing it to get attention! (those slutty slut sluts).

It is not right that women may get naked for men. That his is acceptable and the only way for women to get naked. Why are we not allowed to be naked for ourselves? because it is hot? because we don’t like tan lines? because at that moment my shirt is tugging all weird like and the tag is itching me and I want to take it off?

but that’s right. either we are wrongfully distributing the property of one man, or we are now the property of all men. Yeah. I know, this isn’t shocking either. what’s it called again when men feel complete entitlement to women’s bodies? oh yeah… RAPE CULTURE

headdesk.

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its not just straight men who hate you

I just unsubcribed from reading Box Turtle Bulletin

It has been MONTHS since Carrie Prejean made her comments on the Miss USA stage, or whatever it was.  Can we please get over it?  She’s no longer Miss CA.  So WHO cares?  When she makes more comments we can talk about how those comments are innapropriate, hurtful etc.  I have not problem with that.

But I am SICK of the slut shaming mysogynistc bull shit that is the Glbt movement.  A bunch of men sitting around talking and blogging about what a slut she is.  She has sex tape.  I understand that it is seemingly hypocritical.  And drawing up her logical inconsistancies may be appropriate.  but really, you don’t have to be so fucking mysogynistic when you do it.

Like say with the blog title “Carrie Prejean even sluttier than you thought”.

And then the half hearted apology today really pushed me over the edge.  Apparently Ms Prejean tried to distance herself from the video.  First calling it disgusting and claiming it wasn’t her. so BTB idea of an apology is to use her words to slut shame her instead of their own.

Now I certainly can’t speak for all of our readers, but if this video showed what I think it showed, then I am sure that there are a number of the fellas that would agree with Carrie that, “Ewwww, that’s disgusting.”

Commenters guess that she is on her menses when the video was made. apparently womyn’s bodies are disgusting when they are doing something perfectly natural (and dare I say lubricating). Yeah. slut shaming with a side of self loathing for your bodies natural processes.

I use a diva cup, i get personal with my menses. FUCK YOU. my period is part of who I am. If you hate menstruation you hate women.

I don’t know if that was the authors interpretation. I have to stretch my imagination for sexual things that are “disgusting”. I’m sure there are plenty but not many that I think would be on this video.

I really hate it when people fighting for a cause i believe in use such misogyny. It means I have to spend my time defending people that I would just spend my time disagreeing with.

This is not the first incidence that Box Turtle Bulletin has done this. this is not my first experience with misogyny in the movement. I’m just done. If they legalize lesbian marriage and not Gay male marriage, don’t expect me to help you out. I’m so sick of this.

except I will help. because I believe in standing up against injustice, even if it means coming to the defense of people who have hurt me. I left one last comment there so that they at least can’t claim ignorance of their actions when this happens again.

monkey’s, porn and consent

Yesterday a(nother) liberal dood I know wanted to share how science totally rocks.  his evidence is that a study was done that shows monkey’s like porn and he read about it on the internet. now I don’t know if he read about it at ABC, but I figured if I was going to rant about it, I should look up an article about it.

Then he got really upset that i thought it was horrible. Later he even sent me an email along the lines of, “but I’m a nice guy why do you think I’m a horrible person?” Which makes the issue, not about my reaction to porn, not about rape culture, not about animal captivity, but about poor him and his feelings. Because my feelings hurt his feelings and that is so mean.

This means that I now I have to spend my time letting him know I don’t think he is a horrible person. Well I have to do this if i want to keep the peace. And I do want to keep the peace since I work with him, and we rely on each other to help each other out when studying, and things like that. GRRRR.

But on to the monkeys. First, the article is about how “The study is the first to show that monkeys appraise visual information for its social value and can then use this data to spontaneously discriminate between images of their fellow monkeys.”

but just like with humans the scientists understood “monkeys” to mean MALE BODIED monkeys.

Twelve adult male rhesus macaques (Macaca mulatta) participated in the study

so already there was bias. that female bodied monkey’s don’t count and we don’t need to see how they think since they are the “other sex” anyway.

The monkey’s were given headshots of both males and females, and hindquarters of females to look at. The article does not discuss how the monkeys responded to headshots of the females. but high social ranking males and female hindquarters were “paid for” more often.

Did they pay for headshots of the women too? would they pay for hindquarter shots of the socially high ranking males? how do we know that “sexiness” of the picture had anything to do with it? Maybe social desirability of the subject was important regardless of the position of the monkey in the camera frame. (not to mention that heteronormative assumptions are made about all subjects in the test).  So again, bias about how humans (i.e. heterosexual male humans) view naked pictures comes into how the experiment was organised, and how the data is interpreted:

Camerer says it is “no surprise” that male monkeys “really like looking at female posteriors”. But he is puzzled that males would pay with juice to see high-status males, but would not look at them for very long.

so already we can see this is a problematic study, immersed in patriarchal structure. feminsiting has a post today about science being used to objectify (human) women.

But what about the monkeys? they were “housed in captivity”.  And someone tells me about this study and expects me to be thrilled because no monkey’s were “physically harmed”(quote from self proclaimed nice guy)? Um… vegan here, I’m for autonomy of creatures. that means I’m against captive animals as a slave class for experimentation, regardless of the nature of the experiment.

And onto the issue of consent. This is the biggest issue involved. I don’t know about you, but If I was hanging around and people took pictures of my genitals and butt, and then sold it as porn to someone else, I’d feel angry and violated. But we can do that to monkeys, and its no big deal. More specifically, we can do that to FEMALE BODIED monkeys and it is  SCIENCE.

But you know what? People do this to FEMALE BODIED PEOPLE too. and there is no recourse. If I’m at a nude beach, and someone takes a picture to use as porn, that’s sick right? but shit like this happens, and it is legal, since I’m in a public place. CREEPY. Even if it were illegal, I can’t go to the cops. That could close down the beach, and everyone would “know” its my own fault, and really I wanted it anyway because otherwise I wouldn’t have been naked and teasing men with my nudity.

so this whole taking pornographic pictures without consent issue is both personal and political.

Just more evidence that female bodies are the bodies of the sex class. To be used by men, for sex and porn whenever they want to.  Whether it is male scientists using female monkey bodies to observe monkey objectification, or male monkeys paying to view female bodies as a commodity. Or if it is male humans jerking off in public at a female body who is minding her business and just wants to enjoy the beach. Female bodies are only good for sexual gratification of men and to hell with what women think about it.  Guess what that looks like to me: rape culture.

but you know, getting upset about this hurts the feelings of all those liberal nice guys who really do respect women “both as a group and as individuals”, but who still find this study awesome. /snark.

because rape and tasers are hilarious.

This was linked to on facebook by a liberal dood friend of mine, and “liked” by a few womyn. The friend part is not sarcastic. Just shows that even people like my friends, who really do care about social justice and equality, don’t quite get what I mean by rape culture. Nor do I think they want to. Takes re-evaluating their lives too much.

Anyway, the end of this video, the obnoxious main character is anally raped with a taser. WTF? This is comedy. Because rape is funny if it happens to men.

But it is even more than that. it is raping someone with a lethal weapon. Normalizing violence. Normalizing police brutality.

And people tell me I’m the man hater? Look around. did you laugh at this video? do you think it is funny when a male prison rape scene is alluded to or depicted in a comedy? who laughs at this? I’m guessing some of the people who think I’m a “man-hating bitch” do. I’m guessing some faux-feminist men, who think that showing men weak is what feminists want to see, will laugh. (I actually had a male “feminist” friend of mine say a guy got what he deserved when a woman didn’t tell him she had and STD when he didn’t want to use a condom. ummmmmm wha…?)

Back when I wrote the post on why media depictions of sexual violence against men is a feminist issue, I did not have the benefit of having read Julia Serano’s Whipping Girl. While I don’t quite agree with every thing she says, I do like how she defines traditional sexism as against femininity instead of against women. This type of sexism can be manifest towards males and females. I think this is a case of that.

San Diego Pride

I hate that gay men think that no matter what they say or do that it by definition is not misogynistic simply because they are gay. WTF.

It is NOT ok to grab my breast because you are gay.
It is NOT ok to touch me when I’ve explicitly said don’t touch me in that way. It is NOT funny.
It is NOT ok to make comments to womyn about how porta-potties smell like dirty vags’s.

I’m fucking sick of it. I have been fighting really hard for this community. For YOUR fucking rights. and I’m treated as an object. My voice and concerns are not respected. I find it increasingly difficult to remain an ally to the Glbt community. Cisgendered Gay men are pissing me off as a community. it is no longer a community I feel safe in.

and what is really annoying is I was moving house during dyke fest. so a day I could reach out and become a better ally to the non G part of the community I was moving a fucking mattress.

I don’t know what to do. I have male friends I like, but increasingly its just difficult to meet men who respect me as a human. I’m just so pissed. I need to protect myself first. I want to keep being involved in activism. its an important issue. but I don’t want to work with people who view me as just a woman. Privilege is nontransferable. you don’t understand being a “woman” just because you are gay and have your own oppression.

to quote Jay Smooth

We start acting as though coming closer together means not having to care how our words affect each other. We start assuming we can make any kind of joke or use any kind of epithet without a second thought because now that we’ve made all this progress, everyone’s always going to know that we don’t mean it like that. Right?

Nooooo. That is not how this thing is going to work. That’s not how any relationship works. When people come closer together, the boundaries change, but you never stop having any boundaries, in any healthy relationship. And the whole process of getting closer is based on becoming more aware of those constantly evolving boundaries and better at respecting them. That’s how people get to trust each other and be friends. In any healthy relationship, the closer you get, the more you care about how you affect each other. That’s like a basic rule of life.

He was talking about racial interaction. But it applies to all systems of oppression. You do not get assume what boundaries I have. You should not assume access to my body. you should not assume I will think “jokes” (??wtf??) about smelly vags will be funny or even acceptable.

slut shaming is no ok even if used on bigots

was reading this on feministing and it got me thinking about how I responded to some one who posted stuff about her nude pictures on facebook and my immediate response was:

” I think people who don’t like people to pass judgment on them shouldn’t make judgments on others based on something as superficial as whether they pose for a nude magazine. While I would never endorse the porn industry I think that telling women they are objects their whole life then shaming them when they act like one in the “wrong” way is inappropriate. there are plenty of issues with this individual, we don’t need to use slut shaming tactics to make a point.”

then someone said “I support her right to express her opinions when she is NOT representing the state of CA.”

To which I replied:

“the issue is not that she is expressing her opinions as Miss California as “our Representative,” it is that if she poses nude we can completely dismiss what she said. we can shame her and our point is more valid.

this is ridiculous reasoning. whether or not she posed nude her comments were oppressive. whether or not she made oppressive comments, slut shaming shames anyone who has ever done the activity in question not just her and is inappropriate.

these statements are true whether or not she is “miss California” and beauty pageants have NEVER represented anything other than a patriarchal prescription of what a woman should be. not cool in general. and never representative of me.”

at which point people started talking posting “but I’m not misogynist, I’m just pointing out hypocrisy.”

headdesk

Published in: on May 6, 2009 at 11:07 am  Leave a Comment  
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this is what I don’t get

some excerpts from a post my friend wrote about a conversation he had:

Pointing to the flowers on my table while I was working and then pointing at my computer he stated, ‘See this and see this? They are different and should be treated different. I wouldn’t water the computer.’ ‘See this,’ he said as he went for a stack of my business cards and began laying each one side by side. ‘They are the same – not the flowers and the computer but the cards.’ ‘We can’t treat them all the same if they are different.’

I stopped working and looked at my friend. I said they are the same and they are different and that when you really get down to it they are all made up of energy and matter… it’s all the same by then. No you would not water my computer or water my cards, but they all have value. Diversity and differences don’t mean that discrimination is necessary. They must all be cared for differently, but not treated with any less respect. The flower has value because it is a flower and we can appreciate that. It is different but not less than a computer. The business cards while each is almost identical will each serve out its own unique purpose that even while I may guide – I cannot control the outcome.

now, I think he tagged me so I would read it. I think he wants me to be more patient with people who say bigoted things. I think I’m as patient as I can be. I am willing to point out to people when they are being bigoted but I don’t have the time or energy to spoon feed them the information. Then pat them on the hand and say “its ok I know its so hard to deal with privilege.. you poor poor thing.”

I need to build my own community so I can feel safe. I want to be able to relax occasionally and not have to worry that on my day off someone is going to make a joke about forcing a penis into some orfice on a woman. (or whatever the hate that day)

but what really gets me. How can someone write the above be the same person who every time we mention food has to tell me how he “needs” his “bloody steak” (or other animal flesh).

they are the same and they are different and that when you really get down to it they are all made up of energy and matter… it’s all the same by then. No you would not water my computer or water my cards, but they all have value.

We are all different, all of us, each of us. None of us WANT to be discriminated against, none of us want to be less than, none of us want to be beaten, abused, harassed, killed, shamed, disrespected… NONE of us… none of us. (I began to tear up and paused for a moment.) We all – ALL of us – want love, and to be loved, and respected and at the very least left alone to live our lives freely.

except for the things it IS ok to kill. it is ok to consume the products of rape and of torture and of murder. because those lives are only there for our consumption. those lives only have value to us for what we can get from them.

The flower has value because it is a flower and we can appreciate that. It is different but not less than a computer.

I have value in the male gaze as an object. I can be beautiful as a flower and be appreciated. but that is not who I am or respect how I want to be treated. as the Dude said in the Big Lebowski “he treats objects like women, man” the comparison just doesn’t work.

yes partly I’m ranting because I’m still mad about everything else. And this note feels like it is supposed to be a lesson to me. I have been patient with the liberal bullshit. but I just can’t take the bigots anymore. because to them, liberal seems to mean, “I pretend I’m joking when I say bigoted things instead of saying them out right, then claim I’m pushing the envelope.”

I don’t want to work for equality with those groups because the I don’t want a world with their type of equality. Where we are all equal but some are more equal than others. I want to build a community that is loving and kind and supportive. I want a community based on personal responsibility. based on love.

I will just build a better life
where we will never feel the need
to chop down any kind of tree
or topple over gifts wrapped up in paper
I would like to see
stockings stuffed with things I can use
tips to prevent domestic abuse
all I want for christmas are the blueprints of community

my different friend’s friend’s band wrote that. fuck yeah.

fighting the fight with allies, shouldn’t be like this.

this weekend was, well, not so fun.

I think I need to find another cause. And this sucks. I believe in equality. so I can fight that on many fronts, so its not the end of the world. The problem is I don’t have the energy to fight it on all fronts, at the same time. Especially since I don’t feel like I have a safe space now that I’m back in the states. Especially when I have to fight the fight with very little support within a group that is supposed to be a safe space.

I’ve been doing a lot of work fighting for equal marriage. (that’s same sex marriage to all of you who aren’t clued into the lingo.) I’ve been having a few doubts about my involvement.

1. I would much rather abolish the word marriage from legal documents. fundemental unit of the patriarchy and all that.
2. the debate is phrased as any “TWO” people should be able to get married. that leaves out a lot of my friends and their relationships. Polyamorous groups should not be denied hospital visitation rights because only two of the people are really married. There should be a document that says, “hey we’re family, we take care of each other and we have the rights and responsibilities of being family”
3. this document should be available regardless of the sexual or non sexual nature of the relationships. If I want my best friend as my next of kin and we look after each other as family, it shouldn’t matter that our relationship isn’t romantic in nature.

now on top of these concerns, I’m getting fed up with the sexism in the movement. let me retarget that. I’m getting fed up with sexism in the group I’m working with. oh, and the racist comments, and the biphobia, and transphobia and other remarks I probably haven’t even noticed yet. (plus everyone likes to tell me about how they like bloody steak and other products of rape, torture and murder.)

I understand people aren’t perfect. I mess up all the time. I’m still learning about how to mindfully watch my language. But I’d like to think I’m genuinely trying. This weekend was the leadership retreat, so we had a lot of time with each other. We also, largely because i had earlier brought up my concerns, had a discussion about being more mindful in our speech.

It was a very useful discussion as it helped me identify who I wanted to work with more and who I wanted to avoid. I had been trying to take everything with a grain of salt, focus on the issue at hand, all that stuff. but there are some things I can’t ignore. a member of the “team” posted a racist remark on my facebook.

I updated my status to reflect that one of my friends is looking for a home for their dog. the Nice Guy(tm) NG commented and I commented back:

NG: I was going to type something really off message. *lips sealed*
me: you get a gold star for keeping it to yourself. I’m very proud of you.
other dudely man: But now I just want to know Nice Guy(tm)’s off-color comment about dogs. :(
me: I already deleted it. I don’t allow that type of thing on any page associate with me.
NG: You’re so silly Lauren. ♥

now you can guess that there was a comment by the Nice Guy that isn’t shown in this exchange. as i deleted I don’t have the original text, but it was something like: “Plus my Vietnamese friend would be upset if I started talking about how he eats dog”

wha…?

so I deleted. I would have removed the person from being my friend, but we work together. so I had a discussion with the chapter leader. and thats how we ended up with the discussion.

this is in addition to people slut shaming, constant use of the word “bitch”, gossip about how the bi-guy is really gay, (“I mean really.. he’s just sooo effeminate”). wha? in a group that is fighting for “equality”?

in the course of the discussion the racist Facebook comment was brought up by the Nice Guy(tm). he doesn’t get how it’s racist. “I mean, my friend really does eat dog, it’s a true statment!”

wha?

I start getting really upset. he feels upset and “victimized” because I didn’t explain it to him at the time. He doesn’t get it. It is obvious that I should spoon feed him the information. and he’s studied sociology, so he knows about this stuff.

I mean, come on. I call bull shit on that. actually bull shit can be useful as fertilizer, I call carnivore shit on that. because their poo is that much more gross and full of disease. (I love kitties, but they have super icky poo) The point is, if he truly believed it wasn’t “that” offensive, why did he self screen at first. why not just make the statement if its not racist?

so that was awkward for everyone who witnessed our heated argument.

The next morning at breakfast everyone was talking about how if we make everything PC then we can’t do anything, because everything is offensive to someone. the thing for me is, who are we offending. am i offending someone I am at odds with? am I offending the Mormons? because generally my existence offends a lot of people. and trying to not be hurtful to oppressed groups when our individual privilege gets in our way of being compassionate, is different from the “moral Majority” being offended that women want equal pay. (or whatever).

the burden should be taken up by the privileged. This is our way of dealing with our own biases and recognizing ways to improve ourselves as human beings. so the breakfast group completely diminished the impact of the discussion the previous night.

The leadership team is mostly gay men. there is one bi guy, me, another straight girl and a bi girl. could it be at all possible we’d have more women if there were fewer sexist jokes? maybe?

the moment that takes the cake. we go the the park, someone’s boyfriend meets up with us. He has volunteered and as the bf of one of the leaders so he is tagging along on the leadership retreat. At the park he decides to share a joke that someone sent him:

“a man is getting into bed with his wife, she says ‘I have a headacke’ he says, ‘perfect, i’ve just been powdering my penis with asprin, you can take it orally or anally”

what progress. I call him out on it. he tries to backtrack and apologize, “i’m not really sexist”, and “all my female friends thought was funny” because a man talking about forcing his penis in a woman’s mouth or anus
must be hilarious. wtf? yeah.

I get up and go for a walk and call a friend. I need to get away from this person. eventually I come back. I’m tired and I left half my stuff at the house where we are having the “retreat” I end up sleeping there a while, then meeting up with a friend. she lets me know, there are lots of causes, maybe there’s another way to be involved in the issue that is not with this group. those are probably true statements

I have brought in so many volunteers, I have raised so much money for this group. at least I know the money goes back into the community. I do think they use money well as an org. I think that the type of work being done is useful. but I’m too tired to fight all these fights at once.

Math is sexy if it involves “chicks.” Because chicks are for sex… right?

I’m a math tutor. I received the following text message (spelling and grammar faithful to the text):

“Hey girl! I think your smokin’ hott! Can u tutor me? Im in algebra 1 and 2. How much is it?”

There are no pictures on any of my advertisements, and my last name is not listed on any of the advertisements. So it is not as if the fellow did a google image search on me. My personal websites are all very private. So he is basing the fact that I’m “smokin’ hott” solely on the fact that I have a female first name.

The issue is of course that I’m broke right now. Do I respond? I would only be meeting him in a public place if I were to tutor him. If I do respond, how? I kind of need all the money I can get, but It’s creepy. I blame capitalism. Making me need money. damn.

College boys can’t “keep up”

I followed a link from Feministing to this article. 

In response to some guys who may have genuine “problems” 

We need to (say it with me) deconstruct gender stereotypes. Not all women are like those described in the article, likewise not all men thrive on casual sexual encounters.

However men are expected to thrive in such an environment, so they have a hard time saying no, or admiting that they are not up to it.  Now when a woman is pressured into having sex, you can just use extra lube if her body is not responding.  they can be pressured into sex even when their body is saying no.  Men don’t have that option.

The big issue is respect.  It is a human thing.  We should respect eachother and if we do not find someone who’s boundries we are comfortable with, move on. 

 No one should be put into a situation where they feel they must do something sexual.  It should be a giving and pleasurable experience for both people.  (or “all people” if you are into that sort of thing.)

The problem is not that women are become more assertive sexual beings, it’s that men are not allowed to not be assertive sexual beings.  If a woman’s sex drive diminishes for a year or two that’s “normal female behavior” so why should anyone get so uptight about it happening to a guy?

 My issues with the rest of them. 

These guys with problems are complaining that women all want sex on the first date.  Well I’ve only recently emerged from academia and there are lots of women who like to wait.  (in college I was definitely one of them) Where are they meeting these people?  Maybe they need to find different types of people instead of just chasing a skirt that their body is telling them they don’t really want. 

 In terms of Conquest.  Ew.  I do believe there are some guys who get off on it.  if that’s what they are getting off on, and it’s lack of conquest causing their impotence, good riddance.  Who wants that anyway?  I’m supposed to feel sorry for a guy because he can no longer assert his power over me physically since i actually want to have sex?  that’s gross.  Impotence is not the problem in this situation.  

If a guy get’s off because he is able to pleasure his partner.  that’s cool, but because he tricked her into sex at all?  give me a break.  I concede pressure is different than force, but for someone to want to have to pressure me?  that seems dangerously close to them wanting to force me.