really?

My parent are not “bad” people. And too some extent even recognize their privilege.  But at other times, they completely miss the boat, and get upset that I all them out on it.

Me: I hear it is a common white tendency to find “authentic” things
Mom: But everyone does that. blacks do it.
Me: (genuinly confused because blacks is the name of a beach due to the iron content of the sand) what? blacks?
Mom: you know they want “real” home cooking, real grits …
Me: oh you mean black people, not blacks.
Mom: what’s the difference
Me: well people like to be recognized as people, not as descriptors.
Mom: you know that changes every couple of years.
Me: well that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be respectful of what people want to be called
Mom: You know who I’m talking about, THOSE PEOPLE.  They like authenticity.

::Headdesk::

I gave up. I didn’t even make it to the sentence about how finding the authenticity of your own culture is different than being a tourist in someone else’s culture.

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Published in: on July 6, 2010 at 3:21 pm  Comments (2)  
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I’m not looking for it. It falls in my effin lap. (pt1)

I’m often told I “look for things to get angry about.” And I admit I look where some of these thing are highlighted, like feminist blogs, non-feminist blogs, twitter, google-reader feed, newspapers, television (well I don’t watch that, but it is where these things are), conversations with “liberal” friends, conversations with academics, conversation with fellow students, oh, and the rest of the world.

So today I have examples from twitter/liberal friends and my google reader.

First, recently on twitter one of the trending topics was #IHateWomenWho. I tweeted my dismay (with spaces and no hash mark describing the misogyny. ok, so far so good. But that is not what made my blood boil. I get a reply saying that if there were a similar post about men it would my misandry, and that wouldn’t be better, but it would be equal.

Because feminism is about equality even if it degrades all humans?  bah. also note there isn’t a similar trend. I’m sure people have applied the hash-mark to I hate men who. but would it have the vitriol as the remarks policing how much women should wear, what sluts they are, women who pretend not to be sluts? yeah. I think not. And there were not enough of them to be highlighted as the top 6 trends or what have you. and I know the reply is nothing new, but it came from someone I know. I don’t think I said anything controversial. its not like he responded to one of my more politically charged tweets. Really?

Plus it looks like one of my (other) friends is a junior MRA. I thought, at first, he was just coming to terms with coming out as a transvestite, but it is so full of bitterness. And he’s framing it as if he is a feminist. as if he is fighting against sexism. It’s NOT fair, he will(read has already) decry, that the dress code at a club does not allow men to wear sandals, but it allows women to.  So he HATES that sexism.  He also Hates that women get to look “pretty” (read policed every day about how fat they are, how much make-up they wear, clothing is to prudish, clothing is to revealing, just smile honey etc…)  Yeah, those poor men. I agree men should wear what they want, but saying you hate sexism, or a feminist is ridiculous if that is the only time you hate sexism. Just like sarah palin is a “feminist” because she likes title 9. (Nevermind that she is for forced pregnancy, and made women pay for their own rape kits, is against comprehensive sex ed…).

Never once has he commented on the sexism of advertising objectifying women, never once has he commented on the fact that a third of college women are sexually assaulted, never once has he commented about rape as a weapon of war in the Congo, never once has he picked up the torch for racism, or gay rights, or domestic abuse, the sexual salvery of undocumented women, or how men have been found not guilty of rape when they say, sure I kept going when she said no, but I stopped when she kicked me really hard.  He might agree these things are bad, but he only gets angry when he can’t be involved in a conversation with girls at a party, because they want to talk amongst themselves (he told me about this because I am a feminist and I would understand). this is the same thing as not letting women into conversations about healthcare, or letting them work in male fields, or into the philosophy department at college.  A conversation at a party.  Give me a break.  the whole point is that sexism is an opression that is institutionalized and systemic.  individual predjudice does not oppresion make.  Plus, the opressed class wanting to have a space where their voices are heard, and they can feel safe, is NOT the same at the opresser keeping others from participation as full citizens in society.

Anyhoo. Onto item three. It appeared in my google reader. The top item when I hit “explore.” It showed a blog which listed funny pie charts. some were more funny than others. the last one:

Pie chart "why women cry"

A pie chart in shades of pink. about 10% for "happiness" about 10% for "sadness" and 80% for "????"

(screen shot instead of link.  I’m not driving more traffic there) Um.  Yeah.  because women are emotional and cry for no reason.  Again.  see post title.  I was not looking for pie charts that reify stereotypes of irrational women or ask google to make my blood boil.  But don’t worry, I know, I’m sure it is a strange coincidence that I saw it and not indicative of culture at large.  I’m sure that the fact it was even made was not indicative of culture at large.

Bull effin shit.

One more thing. I’m not “not laughing” because I’m a humorless feminist. I’m “not laughing” because you are a douche.

Blogger is shocked that women are treated as objects

wait, no. I’m not shocked at all.

If you are naked at all, and a woman, it is only for the purpose of sex and men.

so many commenters on this Even the title of article lets us know that, silly women, don’t you know breasts are for men?

I doubt the women were “shocked” that men wanted watch them. They were making a point. Women cannot safely walk down the streets with the same rights as a man.

on woman say “We should be able to walk down the street and not have this many men taking pictures of us.”

I agree. Commenters of course say, “be realistic.” It is comepletely unrealistic to hope for equality. maybe it is, but I think that is too fatalistic. They are also accused of being “hypocritical biotches” because they are only doing it to get attention! (those slutty slut sluts).

It is not right that women may get naked for men. That his is acceptable and the only way for women to get naked. Why are we not allowed to be naked for ourselves? because it is hot? because we don’t like tan lines? because at that moment my shirt is tugging all weird like and the tag is itching me and I want to take it off?

but that’s right. either we are wrongfully distributing the property of one man, or we are now the property of all men. Yeah. I know, this isn’t shocking either. what’s it called again when men feel complete entitlement to women’s bodies? oh yeah… RAPE CULTURE

headdesk.

in which my dad is not completely fail.

my dad just got a new bass player for his band, which was a bunch of dudes. Now it is a bunch of dudes, and a woman. which is sometimes an untenable position. She is also trans*. I don’t know which ending to that word or if trans alone is her preference when she feels the need to discuss that part of her life.

anyway. I barely said hello to the band all night. I went to watch TV with my mom. I went to go get a piece of cake from the freezer (on the other side of were they were practicing), and noticed that almost everyone had left except for one guy. as I was passing by with my newly acquired cake, I hear the band mate say something out of earshot. My dad, in a moment of win, replies “she, SHE , it’s not easy for me either , but I’ll get used to it. it is important to respect peoples preferences”

It is not complete automatic acceptance, but it is good faith and respectful of the pronouns she prefers. not only that, it is standing up to someone who is not respecting the pronouns she prefers. (I would add identities not preferences is preferable, but it was such a leap forward I hate to diminish the achievement)

Of course I only categorize the evening as “not completely fail” because of an exchange after the last band member finally left.

I wanted to provide positive reinforcement so I thanked my father for correcting his band mate. and he said something like “I wasn’t sure how the band would react, but most of them feel like me, as long as it can play, then whatever”

I cringed! I might have literally done a facepalm. I informed my father that no one likes to be referred to as “it”. He explained that he wanted to say something gender neutral, to express the views of the band. I understand his intent and all, and I understand how annoying it is that there is not a generally accepted gender neutral tone (not one accepted enough so I can use it in a scholarly paper or anything like that) but, FACEPALM I say. So I informed him of zie and hir. so that was a bit fail. but not completely. My dad is respecting an individuals identity and wishes, even though they are foreign to him. so it is a step.

Ironically I was discussing various identities with my mother a few days prior (gender identities, sexual identities and polyamorous vs monogamous). I was saying that all of these were on a spectrum, and had to inform her of the Kinsey Scale to talk about the others having a continuous scale like that. (though I didn’t bring up asexuality) . My mother’s response was, “well, I’m not likely to meet any of those people, so I don’t need to know about this stuff.”

Granted she hardly ever meets anyone since she is introverted and mostly retired, so she can do what she likes. But she teaches a yoga class. you don’t know who in your class identifies as what. “those people” are everywhere!!!

It is privileged attitude that “they” exist somewhere else away from “us”. I was getting frustrated with the conversation because I was trying to “gently” explain the consequences of our various privileges. She understands the “I don’t get targeted for violence” part of privilege, but not much beyond that. It was getting really frustrating trying to explain that we need more positive lgbtqi characters in mainstream stories. she kept saying that “they” already have some gay films, so they should be happy with that. (headdesk).

So I gave up. I was about to get upset, and it would not have done any good.

HEAD meet DESK

"Pirates are better than black people"

"Pirates are better than black people"

so apparently there is a guy out there that wants to turn his house into a pirate ship.  AWESOME!  so he created a facebook group to show his live in girl friend that people support this noble goal.  I’m with this.  So I joined.

I then take a peak at the discussion page, which , I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he doesn’t moderate it.  Yeah.  if the picture is not showing up properly, the fourth discussion topic on the list is “Pirates are so much better than black people.” UM  HEADDESK.

And the part of the “discussion” I could manage to read through had at least 7 people defending the post , or adding to the “joke”.

the person who started the “joke” also added

Nonsense! I’m a revolutionary thinker. I’m not saying blacks are BAD, just that they’re far inferior to pirates. That’s why you don’t hear about pirates being enslaved by black people.

and someone else adding

Pirates are also better than spicks.

saving grace was there were people calling out these racist statments for what they are, but the following quotes from discussion have enlightened me, I see now. If only I had a sense of humor! because this isn’t about racism its about styles of humor. actually let me quote all of Alex Orby Kelly’s (god only knows if that is a real name) comments in full.

First comment:

no-one would say it was racist if he said “pirates are so much better than white people”
you’re all over-reacting.
i think it’s hilarious.
pirates are just so much better than people in general.
so shut up and take a joke.
kay:)

(emph mine) um All I’m hearing is “you people should shut up and let me laugh at this!” You are all so mean for being offended.

second comment:

but the point is; if he was serious he wouldn’t bother posting it.
i can understand why you wouldn’t because it may seem racist.
but if you look at it from a comedic point and don’t take it seriously then its quite funny.

(emph mine)

Third:

i know, the whole group isn’t a serious issue.
its meant for fun.
meaning that more than likely, this topic is as well.

fourth:

all i’m saying is that if he called the topic “pirates are better than white people”
no-one would make such a big fuss.
i wouldn’t and i’m white, i’d find it funny.
don’t you think black people have a sense of humour too?
race is such a touchy topic, thats whats OTT.

(emph mine) So the white people who think this is racist are the racist people? even though most of the people calling out the Bull Shit are POC????? and the reverse racism card.

fifth:

he’s saying pirates are better…
like i said, i can understand how the wording of it sounds racist.
but its most probably not.

intention doesn’t matter!  please refer to the wonderful Jay Smooth for more assistance.

sixth:

exactly, i just wanted to get across my point (just like you)
that its less about racism, more about differences in humour.
and that there shouldn’t be such a fuss made.

(emph mine) Yeah. because wanting to be viewed as a a full human being instead of an object of ridicule is getting in the way of a joke! the horror. Because if black people would lighten up, there wouldn’t be a problem apparently? It’s just a different style of humor!  and we should respect other people’s sense of humor.  we’re being so oppressive.  HEAD DESK

plus this gem from Michael Barattini:

So now your saying it’s ok to pick on other races but not black people? that pretty racist… thats kinda like saying balck people are better than every one else…

see here, here, here, and here. also while you’re thinking about it, have you unpacked your knapsack recently?

Published in: on October 29, 2009 at 10:59 pm  Leave a Comment  
Tags: , , , ,

monkey’s, porn and consent

Yesterday a(nother) liberal dood I know wanted to share how science totally rocks.  his evidence is that a study was done that shows monkey’s like porn and he read about it on the internet. now I don’t know if he read about it at ABC, but I figured if I was going to rant about it, I should look up an article about it.

Then he got really upset that i thought it was horrible. Later he even sent me an email along the lines of, “but I’m a nice guy why do you think I’m a horrible person?” Which makes the issue, not about my reaction to porn, not about rape culture, not about animal captivity, but about poor him and his feelings. Because my feelings hurt his feelings and that is so mean.

This means that I now I have to spend my time letting him know I don’t think he is a horrible person. Well I have to do this if i want to keep the peace. And I do want to keep the peace since I work with him, and we rely on each other to help each other out when studying, and things like that. GRRRR.

But on to the monkeys. First, the article is about how “The study is the first to show that monkeys appraise visual information for its social value and can then use this data to spontaneously discriminate between images of their fellow monkeys.”

but just like with humans the scientists understood “monkeys” to mean MALE BODIED monkeys.

Twelve adult male rhesus macaques (Macaca mulatta) participated in the study

so already there was bias. that female bodied monkey’s don’t count and we don’t need to see how they think since they are the “other sex” anyway.

The monkey’s were given headshots of both males and females, and hindquarters of females to look at. The article does not discuss how the monkeys responded to headshots of the females. but high social ranking males and female hindquarters were “paid for” more often.

Did they pay for headshots of the women too? would they pay for hindquarter shots of the socially high ranking males? how do we know that “sexiness” of the picture had anything to do with it? Maybe social desirability of the subject was important regardless of the position of the monkey in the camera frame. (not to mention that heteronormative assumptions are made about all subjects in the test).  So again, bias about how humans (i.e. heterosexual male humans) view naked pictures comes into how the experiment was organised, and how the data is interpreted:

Camerer says it is “no surprise” that male monkeys “really like looking at female posteriors”. But he is puzzled that males would pay with juice to see high-status males, but would not look at them for very long.

so already we can see this is a problematic study, immersed in patriarchal structure. feminsiting has a post today about science being used to objectify (human) women.

But what about the monkeys? they were “housed in captivity”.  And someone tells me about this study and expects me to be thrilled because no monkey’s were “physically harmed”(quote from self proclaimed nice guy)? Um… vegan here, I’m for autonomy of creatures. that means I’m against captive animals as a slave class for experimentation, regardless of the nature of the experiment.

And onto the issue of consent. This is the biggest issue involved. I don’t know about you, but If I was hanging around and people took pictures of my genitals and butt, and then sold it as porn to someone else, I’d feel angry and violated. But we can do that to monkeys, and its no big deal. More specifically, we can do that to FEMALE BODIED monkeys and it is  SCIENCE.

But you know what? People do this to FEMALE BODIED PEOPLE too. and there is no recourse. If I’m at a nude beach, and someone takes a picture to use as porn, that’s sick right? but shit like this happens, and it is legal, since I’m in a public place. CREEPY. Even if it were illegal, I can’t go to the cops. That could close down the beach, and everyone would “know” its my own fault, and really I wanted it anyway because otherwise I wouldn’t have been naked and teasing men with my nudity.

so this whole taking pornographic pictures without consent issue is both personal and political.

Just more evidence that female bodies are the bodies of the sex class. To be used by men, for sex and porn whenever they want to.  Whether it is male scientists using female monkey bodies to observe monkey objectification, or male monkeys paying to view female bodies as a commodity. Or if it is male humans jerking off in public at a female body who is minding her business and just wants to enjoy the beach. Female bodies are only good for sexual gratification of men and to hell with what women think about it.  Guess what that looks like to me: rape culture.

but you know, getting upset about this hurts the feelings of all those liberal nice guys who really do respect women “both as a group and as individuals”, but who still find this study awesome. /snark.

San Diego Pride

I hate that gay men think that no matter what they say or do that it by definition is not misogynistic simply because they are gay. WTF.

It is NOT ok to grab my breast because you are gay.
It is NOT ok to touch me when I’ve explicitly said don’t touch me in that way. It is NOT funny.
It is NOT ok to make comments to womyn about how porta-potties smell like dirty vags’s.

I’m fucking sick of it. I have been fighting really hard for this community. For YOUR fucking rights. and I’m treated as an object. My voice and concerns are not respected. I find it increasingly difficult to remain an ally to the Glbt community. Cisgendered Gay men are pissing me off as a community. it is no longer a community I feel safe in.

and what is really annoying is I was moving house during dyke fest. so a day I could reach out and become a better ally to the non G part of the community I was moving a fucking mattress.

I don’t know what to do. I have male friends I like, but increasingly its just difficult to meet men who respect me as a human. I’m just so pissed. I need to protect myself first. I want to keep being involved in activism. its an important issue. but I don’t want to work with people who view me as just a woman. Privilege is nontransferable. you don’t understand being a “woman” just because you are gay and have your own oppression.

to quote Jay Smooth

We start acting as though coming closer together means not having to care how our words affect each other. We start assuming we can make any kind of joke or use any kind of epithet without a second thought because now that we’ve made all this progress, everyone’s always going to know that we don’t mean it like that. Right?

Nooooo. That is not how this thing is going to work. That’s not how any relationship works. When people come closer together, the boundaries change, but you never stop having any boundaries, in any healthy relationship. And the whole process of getting closer is based on becoming more aware of those constantly evolving boundaries and better at respecting them. That’s how people get to trust each other and be friends. In any healthy relationship, the closer you get, the more you care about how you affect each other. That’s like a basic rule of life.

He was talking about racial interaction. But it applies to all systems of oppression. You do not get assume what boundaries I have. You should not assume access to my body. you should not assume I will think “jokes” (??wtf??) about smelly vags will be funny or even acceptable.

fighting the fight with allies, shouldn’t be like this.

this weekend was, well, not so fun.

I think I need to find another cause. And this sucks. I believe in equality. so I can fight that on many fronts, so its not the end of the world. The problem is I don’t have the energy to fight it on all fronts, at the same time. Especially since I don’t feel like I have a safe space now that I’m back in the states. Especially when I have to fight the fight with very little support within a group that is supposed to be a safe space.

I’ve been doing a lot of work fighting for equal marriage. (that’s same sex marriage to all of you who aren’t clued into the lingo.) I’ve been having a few doubts about my involvement.

1. I would much rather abolish the word marriage from legal documents. fundemental unit of the patriarchy and all that.
2. the debate is phrased as any “TWO” people should be able to get married. that leaves out a lot of my friends and their relationships. Polyamorous groups should not be denied hospital visitation rights because only two of the people are really married. There should be a document that says, “hey we’re family, we take care of each other and we have the rights and responsibilities of being family”
3. this document should be available regardless of the sexual or non sexual nature of the relationships. If I want my best friend as my next of kin and we look after each other as family, it shouldn’t matter that our relationship isn’t romantic in nature.

now on top of these concerns, I’m getting fed up with the sexism in the movement. let me retarget that. I’m getting fed up with sexism in the group I’m working with. oh, and the racist comments, and the biphobia, and transphobia and other remarks I probably haven’t even noticed yet. (plus everyone likes to tell me about how they like bloody steak and other products of rape, torture and murder.)

I understand people aren’t perfect. I mess up all the time. I’m still learning about how to mindfully watch my language. But I’d like to think I’m genuinely trying. This weekend was the leadership retreat, so we had a lot of time with each other. We also, largely because i had earlier brought up my concerns, had a discussion about being more mindful in our speech.

It was a very useful discussion as it helped me identify who I wanted to work with more and who I wanted to avoid. I had been trying to take everything with a grain of salt, focus on the issue at hand, all that stuff. but there are some things I can’t ignore. a member of the “team” posted a racist remark on my facebook.

I updated my status to reflect that one of my friends is looking for a home for their dog. the Nice Guy(tm) NG commented and I commented back:

NG: I was going to type something really off message. *lips sealed*
me: you get a gold star for keeping it to yourself. I’m very proud of you.
other dudely man: But now I just want to know Nice Guy(tm)’s off-color comment about dogs. :(
me: I already deleted it. I don’t allow that type of thing on any page associate with me.
NG: You’re so silly Lauren. ♥

now you can guess that there was a comment by the Nice Guy that isn’t shown in this exchange. as i deleted I don’t have the original text, but it was something like: “Plus my Vietnamese friend would be upset if I started talking about how he eats dog”

wha…?

so I deleted. I would have removed the person from being my friend, but we work together. so I had a discussion with the chapter leader. and thats how we ended up with the discussion.

this is in addition to people slut shaming, constant use of the word “bitch”, gossip about how the bi-guy is really gay, (“I mean really.. he’s just sooo effeminate”). wha? in a group that is fighting for “equality”?

in the course of the discussion the racist Facebook comment was brought up by the Nice Guy(tm). he doesn’t get how it’s racist. “I mean, my friend really does eat dog, it’s a true statment!”

wha?

I start getting really upset. he feels upset and “victimized” because I didn’t explain it to him at the time. He doesn’t get it. It is obvious that I should spoon feed him the information. and he’s studied sociology, so he knows about this stuff.

I mean, come on. I call bull shit on that. actually bull shit can be useful as fertilizer, I call carnivore shit on that. because their poo is that much more gross and full of disease. (I love kitties, but they have super icky poo) The point is, if he truly believed it wasn’t “that” offensive, why did he self screen at first. why not just make the statement if its not racist?

so that was awkward for everyone who witnessed our heated argument.

The next morning at breakfast everyone was talking about how if we make everything PC then we can’t do anything, because everything is offensive to someone. the thing for me is, who are we offending. am i offending someone I am at odds with? am I offending the Mormons? because generally my existence offends a lot of people. and trying to not be hurtful to oppressed groups when our individual privilege gets in our way of being compassionate, is different from the “moral Majority” being offended that women want equal pay. (or whatever).

the burden should be taken up by the privileged. This is our way of dealing with our own biases and recognizing ways to improve ourselves as human beings. so the breakfast group completely diminished the impact of the discussion the previous night.

The leadership team is mostly gay men. there is one bi guy, me, another straight girl and a bi girl. could it be at all possible we’d have more women if there were fewer sexist jokes? maybe?

the moment that takes the cake. we go the the park, someone’s boyfriend meets up with us. He has volunteered and as the bf of one of the leaders so he is tagging along on the leadership retreat. At the park he decides to share a joke that someone sent him:

“a man is getting into bed with his wife, she says ‘I have a headacke’ he says, ‘perfect, i’ve just been powdering my penis with asprin, you can take it orally or anally”

what progress. I call him out on it. he tries to backtrack and apologize, “i’m not really sexist”, and “all my female friends thought was funny” because a man talking about forcing his penis in a woman’s mouth or anus
must be hilarious. wtf? yeah.

I get up and go for a walk and call a friend. I need to get away from this person. eventually I come back. I’m tired and I left half my stuff at the house where we are having the “retreat” I end up sleeping there a while, then meeting up with a friend. she lets me know, there are lots of causes, maybe there’s another way to be involved in the issue that is not with this group. those are probably true statements

I have brought in so many volunteers, I have raised so much money for this group. at least I know the money goes back into the community. I do think they use money well as an org. I think that the type of work being done is useful. but I’m too tired to fight all these fights at once.

omg! Sexism was in my life this week!

Just like every week. 

anyway, the great american show “Wipeout” has made it to NZ.  eeuuugh.

Its where people go on an obstacle course and they edit it to show footage of people falling down and hurting themselves.  Now.  there were some kick ass people, but showing them isn’t humiliating and fun, or something.  among the kick ass contestants were some women.  but guess what they showed?  not that. 

The voice over said “and now (so and so) is here representing the women”  and of course the girl was rubbish and disgusted by the mud she was walking through and she gave up half way through the course. 

because even when women do well at things like that they show the footage of the woman fullfiling negative stereotypes.  you suck american media.  but you knew that already.

and this morning I had to deal with people being dicks about the language  choices they make.  I was discussing tatoos with a 20 year old australian girl.  about what a commitment they are and how I’d want it in a place to show off, but be able to hid, and that I would be able to look at.  in the course of the conversation she mentions how she’s seen such awful tatoos like some big ones on girls shoulders make them look like “dykes.”

I mentioned she might not have meant that word.  That it was innapropriate and offensive.  and she replied “but that was just this image in my head like kinda trashy, you know?” 

so “dykes” = “trashy” 

Head, I’d like to introduce you to Desk. but she did seem embarased about getting called out on it, so maybe she’ll think better in the future.  i hope so. 

I’m hoping to move into a feminist vegan place soon.  mmmm vegan kitchen.

headdeask.. well head-breakfast-table.. yes litterally

a few days ago I read an article in the NZ herald.  It was some old white guy talking about how we should expect 14 year olds to gang rape people because of the sexualised nature of current society.   The background is that two 14 year old boys abducted a 14 year old girl and violently dragged her into a house and then raped her.

 “But we know that a lot of 14-year-old girls and younger are having sex, even if only from the abortion statistics for last year, which recorded 104 abortions performed on girls aged between 11 and 14. “

he could mean a few things by this right?

  1. because if young girls have sex and abortions they make men rape them.  it’s their fault! 
  2. not only do they make men rape them, but they probably deserve it as punishment for having sex and abortions.

“I have argued for years that sex education in schools, particularly that which begins before children even get near the age of puberty, let alone the age of consent, is simply an invitation for them to begin experimenting”

See. those pesky liberals are making young men rape women!  it’s becuase we gave them condoms.  condoms cause rape.  all sexual experimentation causes rape!

“(It always makes me crack up when I read of the nicotine Nazis going crook about smoking in movies or on TV. It’s a funny old world when actors can indulge in uninhibited sex on screen but woe betide any who light up a fag.) “

Ok this is not as on topic… but I really get pissed when people fighting for health and more rights are refered to as “nazis”.  if when someone smoked we then put them in a “work camp” and then had them shower in noxious gas so they died… then call us nazis.  I think it is not only unfounded name-calling it trivialises the exterminiation of an entire group of peoples.    Anyway he just lost the argument by Godwin’s Law.  but back to the bit about how rape is not the rapists fault.

And as for the internet: type “sex” into Google and, in a fleeting 0.6 of a second, the search engine will present you with 851 million relevant pages; type in “porn” and it will bring up 271 million pages.

Thus, considering the power of the primal urges that afflict young men and women, their ignorance of how to handle them and the temptations put in their way, it is unsurprising that things happen such as those which allegedly occurred in West Auckland last weekend.

because rape is a primal urge of men that must be satiated?????  And didn’t you say that giving them information is bad?  because comprehensive sex ed makes them experiment with rape?